Common Grace and Prevenient Grace

We don't have to rigidly follow the TULIP pattern if you think that would be unfair.  I only suggested it as a springboard for much deeper discussion.  It's interesting that you are not a five-pointer, Oscar.  What points do you accept or reject?

Thanks for your insight, Oscar, on Calvin's understanding of common grace.  That's all very interesting about common grace because as it was explained to me, common grace held in check human sinfulness enough to make it possible for us to live together in (at least somewhat) civil society.  It was almost a political aspect of Calvin's theology, but I see now that it is much more comprehensive.

As for your discussion of "will," I am wondering how "free" will really is a will at all if all we can ever do is choose the evil?  Doesn't that simply destroy the meaning of "will" entirely?  Doesn't having a will entail that there is at least a choice between two options.  Think of Adam and Eve in the garden (even if you read these stories as myth which I do).  I think the point from this narrative must be that from the very beginning God has given us a choice to obey or disobey.  Or would you say we are under a different "dispensation" now that we are living after the Fall?

Just so we're clear, Wesleyans also believe that salvation is a pure gift of God.  And we also believe that, were in not for the prevenient grace of God already at work in our hearts, we could not choose to accept his gift of salvation.  So perhaps the distinction between what you call common grace and what I call prevenient grace is really infinitesimal.  However, I do believe that God's gift of salvation is not something forced upon us.  We have a genuine choice to receive or reject that gift.  And I think that is one area we might disagree (if I am reading you correctly).

Another matter we certainly agree on is that of "social sin."  In fact, John Wesley took this so far as to picture a worldwide revival of all people and institutions which would sweep the globe and which would usher in God's kingdom at the eschaton.  We, too, believe in fallen systems which keep people in oppression and that these systems bear the mark of the Fall just as individuals do.  The redemption spoken of in Scripture is cosmic is scope -- and I know you agree with this from our previous talks.  Sadly, many evangelicals have so individualized salvation that we've lost sight of this very biblical vision (see the OT prophets, Romans 8, or the entire book of Revelation, for example).

The issue of disagreement does seem to be this:  "Where does human fallenness still have sway and where does God's grace (common or prevenient) UNDO or trump the effects of this corruption?"  In general, it seems that those of the Reformed perspective have a much darker view of what it mean to be human than do Wesleyans simply because we Wesleyans see God's grace in more places, in more systems, and in more people (as my friend Rick is suggesting very eloquently).  As a result, we are most optimistic about human nature, about God's presence in other religions, and about the ability of human systems to accomplish great good -- all the result of God's prevenient grace.

I certainly appreciate your admonition for us to unitedly oppose all sin and systemic evil despite our theological differences.  And I believe that is precisely what we are trying to do together here in Indianapolis.

Blessings,
Greg the Arminian

P.S.  Rick, I really loved your argument for a greater appreciation and emphasis on the goodness within humanity.  I think we can agree that we are mixtures.  Perhaps you are right that the doctrine of the fall has overshadowed the doctrine of "original goodness" and I do agree that this has had many negative impacts on evangelical spirituality.  I suppose we are all impacted by our context (I know that you're postmodern enough to agree with that) and as one who has been living in the inner city for almost three years now, I must say I am overwhelmed at times by the extend of original sin and how it has infiltrated every person and every structure in our community.  But, of course, even here the good is among us.

If I may interject here....

Greg thanks for starting the conversation and for choosing such an easy topic like Total Depravity! Now I should qualify that I am not a five-point Calvinist, meaning that I think TULIP is a very crude and simplified way of distinguishing Calvin’s theology. His movements within each of these doctrines was more nuanced and allowed breathing room, however, there will be many who disagree with me at this point. With that being said let us proceed.

Total Depravity within the Reformed tradition has always dealt with the means by which people are saved. At this point, Greg and I will disagree but we do so because we see the same truth only in a different light. Reformed Christians believe that our human nature has been corrupted by sin. That means that if we were left to our own, we will always turn towards ourselves, we will always reject God; turn our backs on God’s will and God’s ways for our lives. With a belief that our very nature is sinful it only makes logical sense that our free will has been corrupted. Now Presbyterians make a distinction here because we do not believe that we have a ‘free’ will, emphasis on the free. We do have a ‘will’ but it always chooses sin over life and our will, consequently, seeks it own self-interests. So Presbyterians would argue, ‘is it really freedom that you can choose life and death?” or is freedom to live in complete joy and submission to Jesus Christ?(so if the son sets you free, you will indeed be free)

All of this culminates at the heart of the matter, can people earn their salvation? Since we are unable to lift ourselves out of this condition of sinfulness, we need some power or someone who can do for us what we cannot do for ourselves. That is why within Presbyterian theology, salvation is a true gift of grace that we did not deserve or could ever with a pure heart seek out God and receive. The work of salvation is ultimately the kindness and love of Jesus Christ towards his creation. This begs us to ask another question, how does God choose His recipients of grace? I’m sure we’ll touch on this topic later on in our conversations.

However the concept of Total Depravity has progressed over the past few centuries and we now understand that sin has a social dimension as well. As millions of people make selfish choices they impact the social structures of the world, so that institutions, nations, and legislature can be deemed sinful. As Reformed Christians we call this ‘social sin’ and believe that this is the real affront against the Kingdom of God. The social sins of people have created the different kingdoms of this world, which God’s Kingdom is constantly coming up against. So as reformed Christians who believe that the power of sin is real, and that sin can hold the minds and hearts of people captive, we believe that regenerated Christians are called as ambassadors into the other kingdoms of this world to bring about the ethics and morals of the Kingdom of God.

I leave us with this thought, no matter how deep sin has truly permeated our being, we can both agree that sin is destructive and seeks to consume our neighborhoods, families, and friends. So both Wesleyan and Presbyterian Christians must take a united stand against injustice, in all its forms, and be diligent about pursuing righteousness, so that Christ's witness may be more clearly seen and known.

Sincerely,

Oscar the Reformed

Original Sin, not Total Depravity

As we begin our discussion of the basics of Calvinist theology and the alternative that Wesleyan-Arminians offer, it is fitting that we begin with biblical anthropology -- that is, how the Scriptures view human beings.  Calvinists like to use the term "total depravity" to describe the state of man.  Oscar can correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I understand it:  the doctrine of total depravity teaches us that there is absolutely nothing good in any of us.  

In fact, according to this teaching we are so corrupted by the fall that it is even impossible for us to intellectually distinguish between good and evil.  The fall has been complete and that includes our moral compass.  As the great St. Augustine (second only to St. Paul in his influence in the development of the church) once stated, we constantly sin "in thought, word, and deed" -- often even unaware of our actions' offensiveness to God.

Upon this point, Wesleyans are in great agreement.  In fact, it was specifically regarding this issue that caused John Wesley to state that he was only "a hair's breadth away" from John Calvin.  I cannot claim to speak authoritatively for Wesley himself, but I personally prefer the term "original sin" to "total depravity."  What is the difference?  Total depravity assumes, as I mentioned above, that we are so fallen that we cannot do anything good and, indeed, we are even unaware of the good.  But I find this to underestimate what Wesleyans call the power of prevenient grace.

Prevenient grace literally means "the grace that goes before."  It refers to the way in which God's gracious initiative is already at work in us even before we choose to accept him or become one of his children.  The implications of this doctrine could make a full post in and of itself, but suffice it to say that Wesleyans believe that Christians do not have a monopoly on the work of God.  (I have blogged about this before:  click here).  He is even at work (revealing Himself and his truth) in other world religions.  We can see this is many examples from Scripture -- the widow at Zerepheth, Cornelius who although being an Italian gentile the Scripture describes as "devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly" (Acts 10:2), and many others who seemed to know at least partially about God before the Word was even preached to them.

For this reason, I do not believe that the unregenerate have no moral compass and no sense of right and wrong.  In fact, Paul declares, "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).  God is working to reveal himself to all people, not just an elect group.  So I shy away from language about total depravity because it seems to overlook God's prevenient grace at work among all nations.  This is why we see good deeds performed by non-Christians (although I was once told by a five-point Calvinist that nothing good can ever come from an unbeliever since he does not know the truth of Christ).

Instead, I prefer the doctrine of "original sin."  Wesleyan-Arminians believe that we will all sin, that all have fallen short of God's perfect standard, and that we have all inherited the sin nature of Adam and Eve.  We are "bent" toward evil.  When we look inside of ourselves, we can see selfishness and pride.  Heck... I can see it in my two-year-old!  But I like the way that the hymn writer states it in "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing":  "Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it; Prone to leave the God I love."  We have a "proclivity" to do evil and there is no human who has ever completely resisted that inclination except for Jesus Christ.  However, we do still have a basic sense of right and wrong.  We are a mixture of good and evil -- thanks only to the grace of God at work in us all.

I hope it is obvious from what I have said that Arminians do not adopt the view of Pelagius (the heretic) who taught that we are morally neutral, neither good nor bad.  Far from it!  We are sinful beings and only a cursory look at the newspapers reveal this.  However, our evil is tempered by the ever present prevenient grace of God.  And, as a result, we are not TOTALLY depraved (thanks be to Him).

I'm sure Oscar will correct me where I've misrepresented the Calvinist position.  I did not touch on the wonderful doctrine of "common grace" which John Calvin espoused.  And I'm curious to know now similar that understanding is to what I've just described. 

Your Brother,

Greg the Arminian